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QF mandates Vaccine

Old 19th Aug 2021, 01:44
  #41 (permalink)  
 
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I was talking to a Union solicitor this morning and their opinion was that Airlines are absolutely entitled to make vaccines mandatory as it already happens. Many Airlines already have requirements for Longhaul crew to maintain a level of vaccination for certain destinations, he also said many other industries also have mandated requirements such as Surgeons employed have to have Hep C vaccines and some Pre-schools requiring ALL vaccines for both employees and clients. He said ultimately they are not forcing a medical procedure as it will be done to individual choice if you take the vaccine or not, if YOU CHOOSE not to the implications of that decision will be well known.
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Old 19th Aug 2021, 02:26
  #42 (permalink)  
 
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Here's my real world experience (as opposed to paranoid delusions): I was fully vaccinated (Pfizer) in March. No adverse effects since. Completed my annual aviation medical last month. No problems detected. Medical renewed for 12 months.
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Old 19th Aug 2021, 02:44
  #43 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Ollie Onion View Post
I was talking to a Union solicitor this morning and their opinion was that Airlines are absolutely entitled to make vaccines mandatory as it already happens. Many Airlines already have requirements for Longhaul crew to maintain a level of vaccination for certain destinations, he also said many other industries also have mandated requirements such as Surgeons employed have to have Hep C vaccines and some Pre-schools requiring ALL vaccines for both employees and clients. He said ultimately they are not forcing a medical procedure as it will be done to individual choice if you take the vaccine or not, if YOU CHOOSE not to the implications of that decision will be well known.
+1 to this. Vaccination requirements have been around for various professional and leisure activities long before COVID. A close friend of mine has needed flu vax certificates every winter for as long as I can remember to perform their job.

To argue it shouldn't be part of international aviation is just a NIMBY type argument.
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Old 19th Aug 2021, 03:05
  #44 (permalink)  
 
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Not sure why you keep referring to the FDA - it has no relevance in Australia, and definitely not in any Australian Court as you referred to previously. Maybe go read the TGA research and advice.
I have actually read both. The TGA say it is provisionally approved and only for 2 years because the risk of taking the vaccine without proper testing was deemed acceptable given the current circumstances.
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Old 19th Aug 2021, 03:34
  #45 (permalink)  
 
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From what I have heard, VA will announce an almost identical policy to QF within the next week. Aviation has plenty of cover to make vaccinations mandatory and even the unions are broadly accepting of that and are more interested in arguing whether you should get a paid day off to take the shot rather than whether the shots should be mandated.

The choice is pretty clear, if you want to work in aviation, you must be vaccinated. If you don't want to be, that is fine but understand you will need to find a new job. Given the current economic situation within the industry, there are no opportunities for redeployment so factor that into whatever decision you make.
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Old 19th Aug 2021, 04:16
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 1A_Please View Post
The choice is pretty clear, if you want to work in aviation, you must be vaccinated. If you don't want to be, that is fine but understand you will need to find a new job. Given the current economic situation within the industry, there are no opportunities for redeployment so factor that into whatever decision you make.
There's no issue with a company making requirements for a job description. However without legislation that comes with obligation too, the company accepts liability for anything that may go wrong there whether the employee chose to be vaccinated or not. Without legislation it's unlikely any insurance company will cover that risk, certainly not for that many employees.
A more sensible approach is to encourage employees to choose the vaccination even if that means incentives. To terminate an existing employee for not being vaccinated particularly if there are medical grounds falls squarely in discrimination.
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Old 19th Aug 2021, 05:04
  #47 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Xeptu View Post
There's no issue with a company making requirements for a job description. However without legislation that comes with obligation too, the company accepts liability for anything that may go wrong there whether the employee chose to be vaccinated or not. Without legislation it's unlikely any insurance company will cover that risk, certainly not for that many employees.
A more sensible approach is to encourage employees to choose the vaccination even if that means incentives. To terminate an existing employee for not being vaccinated particularly if there are medical grounds falls squarely in discrimination.
Qantas has said they will accept legitimate medical grounds of which there are very few but it remains likely that these people would not be able to remain in customer facing roles. It is also possible that legitimate medical grounds would probably make you ineligible to be flight crew anyway.
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Old 19th Aug 2021, 06:10
  #48 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KZ Kiwi View Post
Just get vaccinated.It is pretty simple.
Happy to be corrected but i was under the impression that qf int cabin crew were required to have flu vaccine,i would have thought if cabin crew were required to have it so also would flight deck crew.
Im sure someone in the know can confirm or deny.
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Old 19th Aug 2021, 06:20
  #49 (permalink)  
 
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My understanding for QF is flu shot never a requirement just recommended for Flight crew
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Old 19th Aug 2021, 06:28
  #50 (permalink)  
 
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Interesting that just under half the QF Survey recipients didn't respond. Of those that did, nearly 90% were already vaxed or said they were intending to, so it's not surprising what the result of the survey was. I wonder if being sent the survey constituted the "consultation" QF said it had with its employees? Did they know what outcome was riding on the results?
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Old 19th Aug 2021, 07:08
  #51 (permalink)  
 
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This is not earth shattering

Why is it that QF is so keen on blowing their own horn & pretending they are first to split the atom

Perhaps just a bit keen on themselves

Who could forget the shrill excitable performance when the dreamliners came on line ten years after the opposition

You need to have a full standard vaccine regime (& too prove it) to get a place in Nursing schools, (& you would think Med & other
health schools) to commence work as paramedic etc , etc , etc & that has been the case for years

ScoMo put on a s#ir#-lifting performance about how "engaging" QF had been with their staff - spare me please !




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Old 19th Aug 2021, 08:57
  #52 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Telfer86 View Post
This is not earth shattering

Why is it that QF is so keen on blowing their own horn & pretending they are first to split the atom

Perhaps just a bit keen on themselves

Who could forget the shrill excitable performance when the dreamliners came on line ten years after the opposition

You need to have a full standard vaccine regime (& too prove it) to get a place in Nursing schools, (& you would think Med & other
health schools) to commence work as paramedic etc , etc , etc & that has been the case for years

ScoMo put on a s#ir#-lifting performance about how "engaging" QF had been with their staff - spare me please !
You wont get any prizes for guessing where he got the info from about how engaging they are with their staff!
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Old 19th Aug 2021, 10:18
  #53 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by MalcolmReynolds View Post
ALAN. NO YOU CAN GET STUFFED!
And yet in another thread you claim to be already fully vaccinated. That post where you bravely asserted your “right” to unfettered travel and mask refusal. So, to sum up, you care about your own health enough to get vaccinated, you want to rail against the world about rules for the common good, and you care so little for your countrymen that you refuse even the tiny inconvenience of wearing a mask.

Good luck in your future endeavours.
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Old 19th Aug 2021, 10:51
  #54 (permalink)  
 
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Just be careful what you let these companies get away with. To mandate a requirement retrospectively without legislation is precedent setting stuff.
It's easy when you think it's a good thing and agree with it, would you still agree with it if it were a requirement to hold a qualification that few have and it will take a couple of years to get before you can hold a command.
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Old 19th Aug 2021, 12:11
  #55 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Xeptu View Post
Just be careful what you let these companies get away with. To mandate a requirement retrospectively without legislation is precedent setting stuff.
It's easy when you think it's a good thing and agree with it, would you still agree with it if it were a requirement to hold a qualification that few have and it will take a couple of years to get before you can hold a command.
I have no idea what you’re on about and how that relates to covid19 vaccinations.
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Old 19th Aug 2021, 12:55
  #56 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Xeptu View Post
To terminate an existing employee for not being vaccinated particularly if there are medical grounds falls squarely in discrimination.
All around the country in areas like aged care, hotel quarantine, SPC Canned foods, Google, transport drivers and now Aviation have mandatory vaccine policies. None of these have been successfully challenged in court.

I believe there will be exemptions for those with legitimate medical reasons not to be vaccinated, however it’ll be an interesting quandary for pilots because I don’t think there’s too many significant medical issues that would prohibit vaccination but allow one to hold a Class 1 medical.....
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Old 19th Aug 2021, 13:18
  #57 (permalink)  
 
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Media reports today suggested that 80% of Air NZ crew have had Pfizer x 2 doses, and 82% had at least one. The world would be a shitty place without vaccination, ever seen the pictures of iron lungs when polio was endemic? Diptheria, measles, meningitis?

Stop believing in idiots living out their fantasies on the internet and start using the intelligence it took to get command or a RHS; you are smart people who are able to make sound judgements based on the evidence available to you, start behaving like that.
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Old 19th Aug 2021, 14:03
  #58 (permalink)  
 
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Social media or Unsocial media?

I'm not taking sides - it seems an awful waste of mental energy to keep up with the latest, and filter the deliberate misinformation from the ignorant regurgitated piffle, combined with the mainstream media manufactured outrage done for clickbait. Combined with websites (some listed here in this very thread) and other media that have been set up with dubious motives that 'guide' you on how to think with their slanted opinions, should we be taking personal responsibility for things we have no control over?

Strong words of caution here on the actual government website that has the LAW, the place (not RUMBLE) where you should go to source your FACTS on Australian industrial relations legislation.

It is tempered with the background hint that if you want to be a pioneering hero warrior, make sure you have very good (and expensive) legal advice. The 'read my lips, read between the lines' is as blunt as it can be.

Australian government FairWork Australia website is at https://coronavirus.fairwork.gov.au/...nd-obligations - please take the time to read it. It is in plain English, and has sections that apply specifically to the airline industry throughout. It discusses checks and balances, including industrial consultation, privacy and anti-discrimination legislation as well. You can make up your own mind based on facts, not somebody else's second hand opinion.

Sorry folks, the first amendment, entitled sovereign rights, second coming of the orange headed messiah, and what Oprah/Kylie/Britney thinks just doesn't apply at all in Australia! Even if it has been sent to you a hundred times IN CAPITAL LETTERS - "YOU MUST READ THIS" doesn't cut it!!!

Qantas, like SPC have moved swiftly to implement WH&S (Work Health & Safety) measures to reduce the safety risks in the workplace. It won't be the police or health inspectors giving you an infringement notice - it will be the WorkSafe inspector (with the full authority to jail any company directors that have not taken 'all reasonable and practicable steps') that will be doing the enforcing, and the state courts will back them up. No wonder the federal Prime Minister is not taking sides - he doesn't have to. The state legislation applies. Of course, each state is a little different, so multi-state employers like Qantas need very good legal advice to navigate these potential legal obstacles.

Wait till the first widow lodges a claim with an ambulance chaser law firm. "His workplace killed him - they gave him covid"! The rest of the employers will fall into place quite rapidly. Even the most militant unions will put their tails between their legs and meekly acquiesce.

Having said that, the tinpot wannabe rulers of the states scoring cheap political points at the expense of mental and financial health of entire states, advised by unelected health experts that cannot learn from previous pandemics to give sound advice will find their future at the ballot box very shaky. Aussies, by their very nature, do not like to be told what to do. That psyche is deeply embedded in their convict roots. The 'up yours' vote will be significant.

Image of an electoral campaign of Clive and Pauline baking pumpkin scones comes to mind. Let that sear your brain!

Last edited by Thirsty; 19th Aug 2021 at 14:57.
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Old 19th Aug 2021, 14:34
  #59 (permalink)  
 
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Social media or Unsocial media?

Just in case you mind was not seared enough, burn your eyeballs out with this one:




Pauline Morrison? The 'other' orange headed soon-coming messiah...

Last edited by Thirsty; 19th Aug 2021 at 15:00.
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Old 19th Aug 2021, 22:35
  #60 (permalink)  
 
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It’s a moot point, states are demanding proof of minimum 1 vaccination, if you plan on flying international some countrywide are mandating the same. I say good on QF taking the lead in something that will be mandated regardless.
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