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‘Stop choosing useless white male pilots’, RAF told

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‘Stop choosing useless white male pilots’, RAF told

Old 31st May 2023, 14:05
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‘Stop choosing useless white male pilots’, RAF told

Telegraph 31 May 2023:

‘Stop choosing useless white male pilots’, RAF told
The RAF instructed staff to stop choosing “useless white male pilots” for training courses in a leaked email seen by The Telegraph.

In an email dated Jan 19, 2021, Squadron Leader Andrew Harwin, who worked in the Officer and Aircrew Selection Centre, sent an email to his colleagues, he discussed the boarding process where candidates are chosen to pursue certain training courses, he wrote: “I noted that the boards have recently been predominantly white male heavy.

“If we don’t have enough BAME and female to board then we need to make the decision to pause boarding and seek more BAME and female from the RAF.

I don’t really need to see loads of useless white male pilots, let’s get as focused as possible, I am more than happy to reduce boarding if needed to have a balanced BAME/female/male board.”
I thought I read something somewhere about it being best to judge someone by the content of their character rather than the colour of their skin?

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31st May 2023, 14:54
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A bunch of ‘useless white male pilots’ waiting to scramble against the Luftwaffe, circa 1940….
Old 31st May 2023, 14:48
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OASC out to lunch?
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Old 31st May 2023, 14:54
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A bunch of ‘useless white male pilots’ waiting to scramble against the Luftwaffe, circa 1940….
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Old 31st May 2023, 14:57
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That's his career dead in the water now that Wigston isn't providing top cover.
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Old 31st May 2023, 15:17
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Hey....all ya'll don't leap to conclusions here....please!

Unless and until you know what the Squadron Leader defined as "useless white male pilots" is defined as being.....the Squadron Leader might be onto something.

First we (am I allowed to use such a pronun to refer to the collective meaning every person) must first define the terms "Male" which is going to be a challenge itself....as few of us are Biologists.

Then we have to deal with the notion of "White" and whether that is a distinct narrative as some Hispanics are considered to be "White" and that ignores what degree of "White" determines if one. is "White" or not.

Now as to the "useless" part of the category being cited.......I suppose asking the Other Ranks for an opinion might be fraught with peril as to the outcome of that survey.

So don't be quick to anger over such a comment as figuring out exactly what was meant might take some time if done fairly and appropriately.

I suppose a formal Board of Inquiry, complete with Pitchers of Water and pristine Glasses waiting use might be in order.

Put the Squadron Leader under Oath and ask for clarification.....and determine if the Squadron Leader has somehow found the Squadron Leader's own inclusion in the "useless" group .
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Old 31st May 2023, 15:34
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Once these cats get out of the bag, they won't go back. If I was a young white male looking for a rewarding career I would be wary of joining an organisation which I suspected would treat me differently because of my race, sex or sexual orientation. I would wonder about postings, promotions, allocation of quarters, training opportunities and other career related aspects. Conversely, if I was a young black female I might wonder if my impending career would be stellar because of my race, sex or sexual orientation and not due to my ability and personal qualities. Perhaps this will result in white males doing everything they can to get in, get trained, fly, have fun and get out as soon as possible.
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Old 31st May 2023, 15:35
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It needs to be called out for what it is - racism. Deeply ingrained racism.

But because it is aimed, in this instance, at white males, I doubt anything will be done. Nevertheless, it is clear that Sqn Ldr Andrew Harwin is a racist.
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Old 31st May 2023, 15:42
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it is clear that Sqn Ldr Andrew Harwin is a racist.
I wouldn't be so sure. More likely adopting the PC/equality at all costs culture aligns with potential promotion (meeting artificial targets etc). Many folk go overboard on this issue not because of any inherent racist tendencies (either way) but because they see some personal advantage to be gained out of it.
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Old 31st May 2023, 15:43
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Ken that does do a bit of disservice to those pilots that were not white during ww2... Just saying.

https://media.nationalarchives.gov.u...fliers-europe/
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Old 31st May 2023, 15:46
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Originally Posted by flash8
I wouldn't be so sure. More likely adopting the PC/equality at all costs culture aligns with potential promotion (meeting artificial targets etc). Many folk go overboard on this issue not because of any inherent racist tendencies (either way) but because they see some personal advantage to be gained out of it.
Institutionalised racism then?
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Old 31st May 2023, 16:01
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Surely the most important word here is 'useless' - does the RAF have selection panels which selects people who look like themselves rather than getting the best people for the job?

Once these cats get out of the bag, they won't go back. If I was a young white male looking for a rewarding career I would be wary of joining an organisation which I suspected would treat me differently because of my race, sex or sexual orientation. I would wonder about postings, promotions, allocation of quarters, training opportunities and other career related aspects. Conversely, if I was a young black female I might wonder if my impending career would be stellar because of my race, sex or sexual orientation and not due to my ability and personal qualities. Perhaps this will result in white males doing everything they can to get in, get trained, fly, have fun and get out as soon as possible.
Switch this around and you get what has been happening for how many years? Lets face it, for as long as any of us can remember white males have had an advantage
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Old 31st May 2023, 16:06
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Switch this around and you get what has been happening for how many years? Lets face it, for as long as any of us can remember white males have had an advantage
I would agree with you - although the military is still not seen as a 'proper career' by many BAME families. However, curing racism in one direction by applying it in the opposite is not a solution.
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Old 31st May 2023, 16:32
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A bunch of female pilots
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Old 31st May 2023, 16:39
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Ukraine seem to be doing ok with an airforce made from useless white male pilots. Perhaps those RAF training courses are not going to be quite as useful as Ukraine had hoped . . .
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Old 31st May 2023, 16:40
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I've got a revolutionary idea. Since we are talking about the people who we will ask to defend our freedom, how about picking the best person for the job? On second thoughts, bad idea; forget it.
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Old 31st May 2023, 16:40
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Stop being revolutionary Herod, a sensible and logical conclusion will never pass muster...

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Old 31st May 2023, 16:41
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Originally Posted by flash8
I wouldn't be so sure. More likely adopting the PC/equality at all costs culture aligns with potential promotion (meeting artificial targets etc). Many folk go overboard on this issue not because of any inherent racist tendencies (either way) but because they see some personal advantage to be gained out of it.
So, a coward pretending to be a racist in the hope that it enhances his career prospects?
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Old 31st May 2023, 16:48
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A white pilot - albeit not a "useless" one
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Old 31st May 2023, 16:50
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Originally Posted by Ohrly
Ukraine seem to be doing ok with an airforce made from useless white male pilots. Perhaps those RAF training courses are not going to be quite as useful as Ukraine had hoped . . .
If Ukraine had some black female pilots they might be operating a few squadrons on F16s by now.
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Old 31st May 2023, 16:58
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Originally Posted by SWBKCB
Surely the most important word here is 'useless' - does the RAF have selection panels which selects people who look like themselves rather than getting the best people for the job?



Switch this around and you get what has been happening for how many years? Lets face it, for as long as any of us can remember white males have had an advantage
I used to work with a charity providing food for the homeless, this was quite a few years ago now. Somewhere in the region of 90% of the people walking through the door were white males, I doubt they feel they've had an advantage. I spent some time in a pretty deprived area of the UK recently and there were white male individuals who would definitely challenge the idea they have had any 'advantage'.

You can't fight racism with racism. If you try to do this you are a racist.
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