New RAF wonder fuel
Thread Starter
New RAF wonder fuel
Reported in the Telegraph today:
The RAF has completed the world’s first flight powered by synthetic fuel made from “air and water”. The fake fuel is called UL91.
That’s funny, I have been flying my 1938 Tiger Moth on UL91 for about 6 years without any snags.
Mog
The RAF has completed the world’s first flight powered by synthetic fuel made from “air and water”. The fake fuel is called UL91.
That’s funny, I have been flying my 1938 Tiger Moth on UL91 for about 6 years without any snags.
Mog
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It's a fully synthetic version of UL91, rather than the UL91 AVGAS you have been using.
The Steamfire?
The Telegraph story is here. It doesn't say "fake fuel".
The producer of the fuel, called Zero Petroleum, says it indeed makes the fuel from "air and water" – by capturing carbon from atmospheric CO2 and capturing hydrogen by electrolysis from water, then synthesising whatever hydrocarbons are required. That sounds to me as if it'd be practical but would need a lot of energy, which Zero Petroleum have got because they're in Orkney where there are so many wind turbines that they produce more electricity than the islands can use.
The producer of the fuel, called Zero Petroleum, says it indeed makes the fuel from "air and water" – by capturing carbon from atmospheric CO2 and capturing hydrogen by electrolysis from water, then synthesising whatever hydrocarbons are required. That sounds to me as if it'd be practical but would need a lot of energy, which Zero Petroleum have got because they're in Orkney where there are so many wind turbines that they produce more electricity than the islands can use.
Last edited by OldLurker; 17th Nov 2021 at 11:46.
OL, exactly. So all that abundant electricity on tap in the UK can ensure that RAF AVGAS can now be carbon free. Just about fills all the tick boxes, along with those electric scooters. Someone needs to tell my energy company though. If it wasn't for the cap they'd be charging me even more than the King's Ransom I'm already paying.
Just a thought however, how much AVGAS does the RAF consume or even need now anyway? Will our potential enemies be ensuring their fuel is also politically acceptable or just be intent on defeating us anyway they can?
Just a thought however, how much AVGAS does the RAF consume or even need now anyway? Will our potential enemies be ensuring their fuel is also politically acceptable or just be intent on defeating us anyway they can?
Not when we haven't the 'independent' energy resources to do so, no. And even if we had, what meaningful strategic advantage would there be provided from an AVGAS so produced? An Air Force needs as higher performance fuels as are available. As an island nation that has historically meant importing them by sea, at enormous cost in life and treasure in time of war it is true. I don't think flying around in a civvy single piston fed with this fuel is going to change that equation anytime soon. So why the copy and paste Telegraph story? Wouldn't be virtue signalling by the CAS/RAF of course....
Not when we haven't the 'independent' energy resources to do so, no. And even if we had, what meaningful strategic advantage would there be provided from an AVGAS so produced? An Air Force needs as higher performance fuels as are available. As an island nation that has historically meant importing them by sea, at enormous cost in life and treasure in time of war it is true. I don't think flying around in a civvy single piston fed with this fuel is going to change that equation anytime soon. So why the copy and paste Telegraph story? Wouldn't be virtue signalling by the CAS/RAF of course....
Surely the solution is to simply fit one of those big wind turbines to the front of a Hercules. In addition to having excellent range as a tactical bomber the excess electricity generated could be used to power lights and a disco in the cargo hold for weddings etc to generate revenue when there isn’t a war on.
per ardua ad zero carbon footprint?
per ardua ad zero carbon footprint?
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https://assets.publishing.service.go...W7ep-jMcIH6iHe
Time will tell if this turns out to be more environmental friendly and cost effective than bio based fuels (algae being a strong contender it that arena). Both have the potential for near zero net carbon, one takes large amounts of electricity, the other large amounts of space to grow the bio feedstock...
"Mildly" Eccentric Stardriver
Surely the solution is to simply fit one of those big wind turbines to the front of a Hercules. In addition to having excellent range as a tactical bomber the excess electricity generated could be used to power lights and a disco in the cargo hold for weddings etc to generate revenue when there isn’t a war on.
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I do love it when some old fart makes statements like this, seemingly believing that AVTUR is somehow more high performance than AVGAS.
As already touched upon, the alleged "higher performance fuels" the RAF use are kerosene-based, the stuff that can be used in lamps and heaters!
As an aside, the production and trial usage of synthetic kerosene fuels is old news, with Germany (among others) already funding increased development of sites for producing such fuels
An Air Force needs as higher performance fuels as are available
As an aside, the production and trial usage of synthetic kerosene fuels is old news, with Germany (among others) already funding increased development of sites for producing such fuels
THS, as the old fart in question, I do not doubt that synthetic aviation fuels can be manufactured. The Luftwaffe depended on them when that from the Ploesti Oil Field became unavailable. What I question is how Zero Petroleum's product has become a 'wonder' fuel. There's nothing wonderful about it. It requires prodigious quantities of electricity to produce. How is it then 'zero carbon' given that other than UK nuclear generation (with decommissioning removing a lot of it very soon), the next big chunk is generated by burning natural gas?
https://gridwatch.co.uk/
And what has this to do with the RAF anyway? Zero may or may not be able to produce synthetic aviation fuel that can eventually compete in the open market. The UK may eventually wake up to the urgent need to get more nuclear generation on line ASAP. Then we can all wallow in the limitless 'free' electricity promised us all in the fifties. In the meantime we'll be lucky to keep the lights burning, let alone support energy heavy synthetic fuel production, zero C or otherwise. Zero fuelled up a light SE GA a/c with a few gallons of their 'wonder zero carbon' fuel and got the DT to run this promotional piece, and the RAF clambered aboard to give it the 'air of authority' it sought. Well done Zero! Null points everyone else!
https://gridwatch.co.uk/
And what has this to do with the RAF anyway? Zero may or may not be able to produce synthetic aviation fuel that can eventually compete in the open market. The UK may eventually wake up to the urgent need to get more nuclear generation on line ASAP. Then we can all wallow in the limitless 'free' electricity promised us all in the fifties. In the meantime we'll be lucky to keep the lights burning, let alone support energy heavy synthetic fuel production, zero C or otherwise. Zero fuelled up a light SE GA a/c with a few gallons of their 'wonder zero carbon' fuel and got the DT to run this promotional piece, and the RAF clambered aboard to give it the 'air of authority' it sought. Well done Zero! Null points everyone else!
C-42? Rather an old design, surely?
The Douglas C-42 was the designation given to a single transport aircraft, with the fuselage of the DC-2 but the tail and wing centre section of the DC-3. During the Second World War two C-42s were used as Staff and VIP transports.
The Douglas C-42 was the designation given to a single transport aircraft, with the fuselage of the DC-2 but the tail and wing centre section of the DC-3. During the Second World War two C-42s were used as Staff and VIP transports.